Riflescope Blog: Expert's reviews, news, notes on rifle scopes, hunting optics, shooting, binoculars, night vision sights, gun accessories, and more
Thursday, February 26, 2009Customer Ring and Base Questions
I had a few pretty good questions posted by a customer the other day I thought I would share with you folks:
"I am the poster child of novice and I seek your sage advice for my situation or set up. Rifle: Remington model 700 sps, 7mm mag (almost positive it is long action, not an a bolt). Has 4 mounting screws. Scope: Leupold VX-III 4.5-14x40mm long range model 55275 30mm tube. Purchased thru Optics Planet (satisfied customer RE price and delivery of scope and the services-advice of this forum).
Now on to my newbie questions: With regard to scope-base & Rings. I fed the above specs to the Leupold Mount Selector page (link supplied by this forum, thanks Steve L; I think you posted said link).
The results are as follows: Bases Rings STD - 700 (2 pieces) STD 30mm - Low Matte: part # 50016 Matte: part # 51718 STD-700 Long Range RH-LA (1 piece) STD 30mm - Low Matte: part # 51732 Matte: part # 51718 (same as above rings) STD-700 RH-LA (1 piece) same rings as above Matte: part # 50004 STD-700 RVF (2 pieces) same rings as above Matte: part # 50018 DD-700 (2 pieces) DD 30mm - Low matte: part # 50042 matte: part # 52254 DD-700 RVF (2 pieces) DD 30mm - Low matte: Part # 50044 Matte: part # 52242
The mount selector also listed some QR pairings of bases and rings but I am leary of the Quick Release bases and rings regarding stability and loss of 'zero'. Agian though, I am novice; are these concerns un founded?
I recognize the RH-LA to stand for Right Handed-Long Action. I recognize DD to represent double dove tail.
I have no idea what RVF stands for.
At the end of the Mount Selector results was the statement that Max ring spacing was 5.9". I am assuming (yes I know what 'assuming' might get me so I thougt it prudent to ask also) that 5.9" is the distance between the forward and rear rings?
As stated earlier, my objective lense is 40mm. The Mount Selector recommends low-rings across the board. Does this seem right? Should I consider medium heigth, and if so what are the downside to going from low to medium?
I have also read on this very forum that I need not be concerned with one piece vs two piece with regard to stability. In fact, two piece bases tend to allow for greater ease with clearance and loading. Is that correct?
Should I go with a steel base as opposed to aluminum because there is some recoil from the magnum cartriges; or are the steel bases designed for heavier recoil than the 7mm mag (ie super mag or the really big dangerous game cartriges)?
I am guessing that any of the above Leupold rings will suffice for my situation as long as they are properly paired with the base per the mount selector results. I have been advised to have the scope mounted as far forward as possible due to recoil. The eye relief on the low end of the 4.5-14 is about 4.5" and about 3.5" high end (which I really don't intend to scope to 14 very often). LAPPING THE RINGS. I am going to bring the rifle to a local smith to mount the scope and bore site it. I will ask that he lap the rings for me or is it not necassary with Leupold rings? LASTLY (yes, this wind storm is almost over.
I would like to thank every one who suffered to endure my newbie question rampage) I would like to get some lense covers. I read in the forum that the Optics Planet carries the Leupold aluminum flip back covers for my particular scope (part # 59045 objective lense and part # 59055 for the opticle lense). My question is this: Are the covers flush with the scope; do I need to be concerned with bolt clearance for the cover on the opticle lense? Any input would be greatly appriciated. As you can tell, I did just fall off the turnip truck."
My answer was as follows:
You're doing a great job and have good questions. One at a time. RVF is reversible front. Not an issue with your particular system. On some scopes and guns you'll need the extra 1/2 inch or so it will offer you. Not as clean looking as the standard base, but just as strong.
I prefer steel on my hard use guns, and I rarely have use for any QR rings. I'm not going to remove it for cleaning or transport or swapping or....
Your 5.9" spacing assumption is correct.
I would recommend low rings. The only issue you may have is with slip-over caps such as Butler Creek, and where the exact position of the scope is when placed for your eye. I use lows and my caps fit. Mediums are not such a huge issue, but lows are a bit more comfortable for my face size. I use two piece bases on my hunting guns. I like the extra room I get to load from the top, and for ejection, which is rarely an issue. Two piece bases use four screws, and one piece most often use three screws. Strength is not an issue with either one, and on hunting guns it matters zero. You mount the scope for your head position. You never change your head position to fit a scope. If your gunsmith regularly laps rings and it doesn't cost too much have him do it, more for piece of mind and no scratches on the scope after removal than any other issue. You can certainly forget about him lapping with no ill effects except for maybe a scratch. If he's mounted hundreds/thousands of scopes he should know when he's torquing a scope. Takes a person that doesn't know any better or doesn't care to put a scope in the rings incorrectly. The Alumina covers fit flush. I mostly don't use covers unless the weather is bad. They get in my way, and can cause a missed shot or a dead hunter in the case of dangerous game. I mostly use a Butler Creek Bikini for transport and then remove it while in the field, but I always have flip ups somewhere with me, if not on my person. I would choose the 50042 and the 52242. No need for anything fancier or more expensive.
Monday, February 02, 2009
"I am the poster child of novice and I seek your sage advice for my situation or set up. Rifle: Remington model 700 sps, 7mm mag (almost positive it is long action, not an a bolt). Has 4 mounting screws. Scope: Leupold VX-III 4.5-14x40mm long range model 55275 30mm tube. Purchased thru Optics Planet (satisfied customer RE price and delivery of scope and the services-advice of this forum).
Now on to my newbie questions: With regard to scope-base & Rings. I fed the above specs to the Leupold Mount Selector page (link supplied by this forum, thanks Steve L; I think you posted said link).
The results are as follows: Bases Rings STD - 700 (2 pieces) STD 30mm - Low Matte: part # 50016 Matte: part # 51718 STD-700 Long Range RH-LA (1 piece) STD 30mm - Low Matte: part # 51732 Matte: part # 51718 (same as above rings) STD-700 RH-LA (1 piece) same rings as above Matte: part # 50004 STD-700 RVF (2 pieces) same rings as above Matte: part # 50018 DD-700 (2 pieces) DD 30mm - Low matte: part # 50042 matte: part # 52254 DD-700 RVF (2 pieces) DD 30mm - Low matte: Part # 50044 Matte: part # 52242
The mount selector also listed some QR pairings of bases and rings but I am leary of the Quick Release bases and rings regarding stability and loss of 'zero'. Agian though, I am novice; are these concerns un founded?
I recognize the RH-LA to stand for Right Handed-Long Action. I recognize DD to represent double dove tail.
I have no idea what RVF stands for.
At the end of the Mount Selector results was the statement that Max ring spacing was 5.9". I am assuming (yes I know what 'assuming' might get me so I thougt it prudent to ask also) that 5.9" is the distance between the forward and rear rings?
As stated earlier, my objective lense is 40mm. The Mount Selector recommends low-rings across the board. Does this seem right? Should I consider medium heigth, and if so what are the downside to going from low to medium?
I have also read on this very forum that I need not be concerned with one piece vs two piece with regard to stability. In fact, two piece bases tend to allow for greater ease with clearance and loading. Is that correct?
Should I go with a steel base as opposed to aluminum because there is some recoil from the magnum cartriges; or are the steel bases designed for heavier recoil than the 7mm mag (ie super mag or the really big dangerous game cartriges)?
I am guessing that any of the above Leupold rings will suffice for my situation as long as they are properly paired with the base per the mount selector results. I have been advised to have the scope mounted as far forward as possible due to recoil. The eye relief on the low end of the 4.5-14 is about 4.5" and about 3.5" high end (which I really don't intend to scope to 14 very often). LAPPING THE RINGS. I am going to bring the rifle to a local smith to mount the scope and bore site it. I will ask that he lap the rings for me or is it not necassary with Leupold rings? LASTLY (yes, this wind storm is almost over.
I would like to thank every one who suffered to endure my newbie question rampage) I would like to get some lense covers. I read in the forum that the Optics Planet carries the Leupold aluminum flip back covers for my particular scope (part # 59045 objective lense and part # 59055 for the opticle lense). My question is this: Are the covers flush with the scope; do I need to be concerned with bolt clearance for the cover on the opticle lense? Any input would be greatly appriciated. As you can tell, I did just fall off the turnip truck."
My answer was as follows:
You're doing a great job and have good questions. One at a time. RVF is reversible front. Not an issue with your particular system. On some scopes and guns you'll need the extra 1/2 inch or so it will offer you. Not as clean looking as the standard base, but just as strong.
I prefer steel on my hard use guns, and I rarely have use for any QR rings. I'm not going to remove it for cleaning or transport or swapping or....
Your 5.9" spacing assumption is correct.
I would recommend low rings. The only issue you may have is with slip-over caps such as Butler Creek, and where the exact position of the scope is when placed for your eye. I use lows and my caps fit. Mediums are not such a huge issue, but lows are a bit more comfortable for my face size. I use two piece bases on my hunting guns. I like the extra room I get to load from the top, and for ejection, which is rarely an issue. Two piece bases use four screws, and one piece most often use three screws. Strength is not an issue with either one, and on hunting guns it matters zero. You mount the scope for your head position. You never change your head position to fit a scope. If your gunsmith regularly laps rings and it doesn't cost too much have him do it, more for piece of mind and no scratches on the scope after removal than any other issue. You can certainly forget about him lapping with no ill effects except for maybe a scratch. If he's mounted hundreds/thousands of scopes he should know when he's torquing a scope. Takes a person that doesn't know any better or doesn't care to put a scope in the rings incorrectly. The Alumina covers fit flush. I mostly don't use covers unless the weather is bad. They get in my way, and can cause a missed shot or a dead hunter in the case of dangerous game. I mostly use a Butler Creek Bikini for transport and then remove it while in the field, but I always have flip ups somewhere with me, if not on my person. I would choose the 50042 and the 52242. No need for anything fancier or more expensive.
Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15x40 Tactical Riflescope on Beeman R-1 Air Rifle
I installed some excellent new glass on my .20 caliber Beeman R-1 Anniversary model air rifle this weekend. The Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15x40 Tactical riflescope is airgun rated for the heavy dual recoil of magnum spring-piston airguns. This #325154T Japanese airgun scope stretches to over 14.5 inches, which is about the maximum length you can put on a barrel-breaking air rifle, and the objective lens housing is only about a half inch away from the barrel when pivoting it to load, which still permits easy access. Eye relief is a comfortable 3.5 inches. The fast focus eyepiece offers easy reticle sharpening, and the adjustable objective can be manipulated for an extremely crisp target picture down to the official 10 meter airgun distance. The turrets are oversized for easy incremental adjustments, and the turret caps are easily removed and repositioned to zero if you like.
I installed this scope in a Leapers one piece airgun mount with integral, required scope stop. I'm becoming more impressed with Leapers products all the time, mainly regarding their accessories. The RGPM2PA-25M4 mount is nicely machined with no visible toolmarks. Each ring has 4 Allen screws and a soft compressible layer of friction tape on all 4 ring halves that ensures a secure grip without marring your scope tube, and not requiring any lapping. The Leapers mounts come with an extra screw and scope stop. These are fine mounts and a great value. This R-1 has been my go-to airgun since the early nineties and I only use top quality equipment on it. It is a 20th Anniversary model. I put an ivory grip cap on this German gun for looks, and a muzzle break for easier cocking. The trigger shoe is something I've always been fond of.
I use the closest gun vise or rest handy to line up the crosshairs and set eye relief, then take some close shots to find out where I'm at on the paper. The vise this time was a Wheeler "Best Damn Gun Vise." My targets were standard NRA 10 meter air rifle targets. I was sighted in within a dozen shots. I shoot into a trap my dad made when I was just a few years old, and I've been shooting rimfires and pellets into it for over 40 years. It's as good as the day it was born. The other trap I use was made by Detroit Armory. It's called a Super 12x12, and it will handle any centerfire cartridge that throws up to a 300 grain bullet at 3200 FPS. Needless to say, it is a substantial piece of equipment.
My Shirley and Rad stay upstairs when I shoot, and airguns don't make too much noise, nor stink up the basement with spent powder and primers.
I use Crosman Premier pellets a lot, and these excellent field pellets have earned an envious reputation for their size and weight consistency. This particular gun likes them quite a bit, although for hunting I usually sight in with Beeman Cro-Magnum hollowpoints or Silver Arrow pointed pellets.
I shot the gun offhand at 10 meters from the strong side and weakside, then shot from a bench from both sides as well. I use leather sandbags on top of a Caldwell rest for the front, and a bunny ear bag for the rear. I have learned through many experiments sizing and seating pellets that it makes very little difference on projectiles that individual sporting airguns like, so I just seat them firmly with my finger, taking care not to damage the delicate pellet skirt while doing so.
Learning to shoot spring-piston airguns well is difficult and humbling. The time from sear release to pellet exit is so long, and the guns are so temperamental in the consistent manner in which they are held, that perfect form and follow-through are required. Spring guns know what you're doing wrong before you do, and they take any opportunity to embarrass you and throw a flier. Various shooters will also have different points of impact with the same gun due to the nonstandard ways the gun is being held.
I love this new Bushnell Elite 3200 on this gun, and the Leapers mount is superb. My groups were very satisfying. The scope tracked perfectly every time. Before I closed up shop I also shot a Beeman P-3 air pistol with H&N wadcutter pellets for a while, both strong and weak side. I love the P-3s. The triggers are outstanding, and the guns have my highest recommendation in a moderately priced single stroke pnematic with typical German care and engineering.
It was a good weekend of pellet shooting in the Game Room, and a great way to keep up my muscle memory and shooting skills during the off-season. It was also inexpensive, and my airgun shooting is quiet enough not to piss off My Shirley or Rad.
Took a break from shooting Saturday and slurped down a couple dozen fresh oysters with my good friend and fellow firearms instructor Jerry. Jerry and I talked guns and hunting stuff while his lovely wife Linda and my beloved Shirley yakked about stuff that boys don't care about. The oysters were outstanding. Thanks, guys.